Episode 85: Weight Loss Drugs and Overcoming Binge Eating with Marcelle Rose
“I completely understand the pull (of weight loss drugs) why many people see it as a solution but I’m concerned about the fact that we don't have long term data or studies re the health effects and for people with eating disorders it can be a disaster and potentially create/contribute to disordered eating.”
Our first podcast guest for 2025 is Marcelle Rose, an Emotional and Disordered Eating Specialist and registered dietician.
We cover weight loss drugs, fear around food, appetite and Marcelle’s best selling book The Binge Freedom Method with her four pillar system to help you back on track.
“There is always an opportunity to overcome an eating disorder and reclaim your life.”
EPISODE TIMESTAMPS:
[01:28] - Marcelle's Personal Journey with Food
[04:18] - The Impact of Weight Loss Medication
[06:57] - Understanding Emotional Eating
[15:00] - Marcelle's Training and Approach to Nutrition
[19:31] - Navigating Food Choices and Flexibility
[27:58] - Struggles with Orthorexia
[28:54] - Impact of Training on Food Relationship
[30:19] - Emotions After Binge Eating
[31:55] - Introduction to Marcelle's Book
[36:00] - The Four Pillars of Binge Freedom
CONNECT WITH MARCELLE ROSE:
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!
If you enjoyed this episode, please let us know your thoughts on Instagram @lovethisfoodthing and consider leaving an honest review and rating for the show - we’d be extremely grateful.
WAYS WE CAN HELP YOU:
EPISODE #85 TRANSCRIPT: Weight Loss Drugs and Overcoming Binge Eating with Marcelle Rose
Jemma: Welcome to Love This Food Thing podcast. I'm Jemma. This is the place where we explore our relationship with food, be it friend or foe, and how this affects our behavior. Here's today's episode. Welcome back to Love This Food Podcast 2025, and I'm delighted to be joined by Marcelle Rose. Marcelle is a bant registered nutritionist and coach with specialist training in eating disorders and behavior change.
Marcelle is also the author of the new bestselling book, the Binge Freedom Method. Your four pillar plan to beat emotional eating for good, and she consults with clients worldwide. She also supports women in her free Facebook community, the Food Freedom Collective. Marcelle, welcome to Love This Food Thing podcast.
Marcelle: Hello. Thank you for having me. Sometimes when I read those introductions, I feel like I'm doing some kind of tongue twister. And, uh, yes, at least I didn't fall at the first hurdle, which I often do.
Jemma: Lovely to have you on. So this is our, we we're not doing seasons at the moment. We're doing, this is just for all the listeners we're doing and we haven't done a podcast for about, I dunno, six months.
So this is for, yeah, this is gonna be on an ad hoc basis. So we are going to record our lovely guests and then release them as and when. Marcelle, how would you describe your relationship with food? Would you describe it as a friend or a foe? I would say it's a friend. Mm-hmm. Can you unpack that a little bit for me?
Marcelle: Yes. I would say generally it's a friend. Um, it has perhaps hasn't always been that way. Okay. I'm surprised to say yes. Um, well. Just going back to when I was younger and actually before I was doing this job, um, I had a completely different career many years ago in the fashion industry. Okay. And, um, and it was a very stressful job.
And, um, I suffered a lot with IBS. So I found myself trying to exclude quite a lot of foods. Um, and I suppose I. Yeah, there was, there was a bit of anxiety around what I was eating, um, at that stage because of, you know, is it gonna bloke me, make me feel, um, uncomfortable And, um, so, so it wasn't always. Happy relationship with food then, did you?
Not in the sense of an eating disorder, but
Okay. For sure. But it, it impacts you 'cause you have to eat all the time, don't you? Otherwise, you, you die. So yes, we need to have a, a comfortable relationship or an Okay. A good enough relationship with food. When you were working in the fashion industry, did you also feel all those obvious pressures?
I think I was, yes, I was definitely aware of it, but I, I was quite a sort of. Skinny girl growing up. So I had that kind of thin privilege in a way and didn't at, at that age. I, I wasn't probably in my early twenties really that worried about food and the impact it might have on my body image. And so amazingly, I, I wasn't really touched by that too much, I would say.
Okay. Wow. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah, it was, um, I always find it quite, um, ironic that now I'm working in the, you know, helping people with their body image when having worked for the fashion industry that often does the opposite.
Jemma: Yeah. Yeah. How do you, can you, um, is there a difference between the perception now, the people that you're helping compared to when you were in the fashion industry?
Has anything changed because you are now. You've done either, both sides of the coin, haven't you?
Marcelle: Yeah, I think, I think things were changing, but unfortunately now with the whole, um, weight loss medication, um, and the conversation and the narrative around that, I think we've gone backwards quite a long way, unfortunately.
Jemma: What do you think about the weight loss medication? Are you, do you have more negative feelings towards it than positive?
Marcelle: Look, I'm concerned. Um, I mean, I, I completely understand the pull of it and why many people might see it as a solution, but I am concerned about the fact that, um, we don't really have very long term data and studies on, you know, the health effects.
And also for people with eating disorders, it can be a disaster. And, and I think it can potentially. Create or, you know, contribute to disordered eating. Um, so I'm not, you know, I understand why for some people it might be helpful, but I think there is, there isn't enough conversation around, um, the problems surrounding it and potential risks.
It's fascinating, isn't it, because.
Jemma: I just think that it's only one half of the story. Mm. Because okay, you, you take whatever you're taking Wegovy, whatever, Manjaro, whatever. And, uh, you don't take Wegovy, do you? That's the actual company. You take Manjaro big and, and then you stop and. How does the body then bring itself back into balance?
Marcelle: Yeah, so, so this is the issue and I'm, I'm having clients come to me now having already been on the medication and um, obviously we know a bit about the weight rebound, but we also hearing, well, what I'm hearing from clients is that the, you know, the. The cravings and that food noise that's always talked about in the media Yeah.
Comes back with a vengeance and Right. I've heard that too. Yeah. And it, it, you know, you are, you're creating even more of a problem. Um, and yeah, it, it's leaving people stuck. 'cause it's not really addressing your relationship with food. That's the thing. It's just,
Jemma: it isn't, is it? It's not. No. And also it's not addressing your.
What, what, what psychology you may have around it, or,
Marcelle: exactly.
Jemma: And then if you wanna lose weight and you are losing weight and you're not hungry and it's not a struggle, then that's the thrill, right? Most people are gonna be like, oh, this is great. Yes. Yeah. So then what do you do when you don't have that thrill and all the, as you said, the food, the noise comes back.
The D ones come back.
Marcelle: The food guilt and
Jemma: all of that. Food guilt. Yeah. Wanting, desperately wanting to eat, but feeling guilty. And then you're back to square one, aren't
Marcelle: you? Mm mm Or in an even worse position, I think, from what I'm seeing.
Jemma: Yeah,
Marcelle: unfortunately. Can I
Jemma: just, obviously you can't talk about a particular client, but how long have some of your clients been on the weight loss drug?
I think,
Marcelle: yeah, it varies. It really varies. Some people try. For a few months and you know, they are finding that they can't handle the side effects. Right. Right. Okay. Um, and, and then they've, you know, come to me afterwards, that may not necessarily be, 'cause I work with disordered eating and eating disorders and, and some people who'd call them emotional eaters, call themselves emotional eaters as well, who might not have an eating disorder.
So, um, yeah, I'm seeing. Just a, um, different amounts of time that people are on different struggles in terms of the side effects and how they're feeling on it. And, and then I'm seeing people who kind of bought, bought the stuff, put it in their fridge and it's got, they've got it sitting in their fridge because it's sort of that the noise around it follows them.
Right. That's what they describe it as. Like, I, I don't, I'm a lot of. People have said that they're not actively looking for it, looking at it, that information, but it's everywhere and they can't escape it.
Jemma: It's fascinating, isn't it? Because I know people who've done it, who've taken it, and they're okay.
Mm-hmm. But I mean, and let's be honest, I would never take it. But I'm tempted. Mm-hmm. But I would never take it 'cause with someone with a history like mine, I would be, I imagine I'd be out of control within about, I dunno, 48 hours probably. Yes. Yeah. It's um, it's very seductive, isn't it? It's Of course it is.
Yeah, of course it is. Yeah. To be without appetite. Uh, it's funny, isn't it? We, we want to, we want to have desires and we want to feel passionate and creative and for, for which you need an, an appetite, right? Quote unquote. Mm-hmm. But we don't wanna have that hunger for food. 'cause of the fear that if we start eating, we are never gonna stop.
Marcelle: Yeah.
Jemma: That doesn't That hum in the background.
Marcelle: Yeah, it's so true. And you know, one of the things that's I really try and encourage when I'm speaking with my clients is that whole idea that actually we shouldn't be afraid of, of, of the appetite. And knowing that we're hungry, it's a really useful and important sign to have in our body.
Um, but there's so much fear around it. So where do you think
Jemma: in your, with your years of experience, can you find a source for that fear?
Marcelle: Mm. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely what you were speaking about, which is, is the idea that, that you're gonna be completely outta control.
Jemma: Right.
Marcelle: Um, once you, you know, that hunger means for some people Yes.
Yeah. If you eat, you'll feel outta control. For others, it, you know, if you're coming from more of, um, a history of restriction and anorexia, it's. It's something that they feel like almost, you know, you want to feel that hunger, but you don't want to because it feels something like, well, you're doing something right then if you're feeling hungry.
Um, so I think it depends on, on, um, you know, the history of the, um, with the person and, um, whether you're coming from a place of, of. Restriction, anorexia or, or more of the binge eating place? Do you think it's because
Jemma: we just have, I mean, I'm thinking about Europe and the UK generally. I know people are living below the poverty line and can't put food in the table.
I know that. But generally we have plenty of food. Mm. Compared to many other countries. Do you think we just have too much. What would happen? Here's, I was thinking about this morning, what would happen if we removed social media, if we removed advertising? If you never saw another objectified female body or male body, if suddenly you were quite limited with your food choices, if you went to the shop or wherever you get your food from and you're like, well, you know, like a kind of war situation, do you, I think that that noise would still be there.
I think, I think that it's just, for many of us, it's just food in your body is where you, you know, like where you kind of paint your distress. 'cause it's so accessible. Isn't it so immediate? Mm-hmm. Yes. But I wonder if it would make a difference. I wonder. I mean, there's been, I dunno if there's been any studies
Marcelle: when, oh, I don't know.
It's really interesting to think about that, isn't it? Mm-hmm. I don't know. I think. The food noise often is there as a result of what's gone on before. And as you say, that sort of, you know, the emotional crutch perhaps, but also has the person been. You know, what's their psychology around it? Hmm. Have, has the person been in the all or nothing, you know, that all or nothing mindset around food and restricting and having forbidden foods.
And, um, I really do believe that that plays a big role in, in creating those, you know, cravings for food, giving that, that food that they're denying themselves, the power. The craving.
Jemma: Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: Um, and I think that can make a difference as well. Do you, you
Jemma: see, I've got this thing about, I've been doing a couple of videos with someone with, um, live from, live label free, and we've got this thing about eating disorders are ex existential disorders because Let, I can only really talk about me, but.
My eating disorders were about my inability to handle life and to, uh, hold onto experiences, to digest experiences, to, um, kind of, you know, be here with everybody else. Mm. And. So I've started thinking and writing about food is, is, I'm not being very articulate here, but by definition food is life because we have to eat to survive.
Therefore, the argument goes, it's limited. The argument goes that the fundamental question under lots of people's eating disorder and disordered eating is like, who am I and what am I doing here? Because you are, you are messing with your life force. Mm, yeah. I quite, that really helped me recover. It took me outta that um, sort of very small eating disorder world that I found myself in and I mean my internal world, I don't mean out there on Instagram.
Yes. Anything like that. 'cause there was no Instagram when I was recovering. That was a long time ago. So, uh, so. I mean, we're gonna ha take a quick break, but I'm also fascinated because you work with people who overeat. Mm. And who binge, and back to this, the fear of not being able to control oneself. Mm.
And then you think what? Not being able to control yourself in life, or is it too much? Is it overwhelming? Mm. Do you know what I mean?
Marcelle: Yes. There's often a lot of overwhelm going on with somebody and, um. And a real disconnect, I think. Yes. With themselves and being out of the body, right? Mm
Jemma: mm Absolutely.
Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll go back to that.
Welcome back to Love This Food Thing podcast. I'm here with Marcelle. I've just promised her that I will keep quiet. She can talk over me. Marcelle, you wanted to go back a little bit and talk about your, when you were training to be a nutritionist. Yes. What that brought up for you. So, so let's do that before we move on to the old binging thing.
Marcelle: Yeah. So yeah, it's really interesting because I know we started talking about my relationship with food and mm-hmm. I haven't had an eating disorder. Um, body image probably wasn't particularly, um. Difficult for me growing up, um, and, and in my sort of young career, but when I went to retrain as a nutritionist, I think, um, I became very.
Anxious around and a little bit obsessive around the nature of the food being healthy enough. Mm. And that whole sort of dichotomy of good, bad foods.
Jemma: Mm.
Marcelle: Um, more from a sort of health perspective than um, uh, shrinking my body perspective. Mm-hmm. Um, and I didn't really realize that while I was going through my training.
Started as um, uh, you know, working as a general nutritionist until I did my eating disorder training. Okay. And I was suddenly fa fascinated and I dunno what had driven me to decide I was really interested in eating disorders. I mean, obviously it's fascinating. Yeah. Um, and very complex, but it was so fascinating to do that and realize that I'd become.
Just quite obsessive around food and that I really had to, um, assess my relationship with food then. So, because you'd limited your choices or they had to be just, I think the concern and, and, and also, you know, I had, um, youngish children mm-hmm. And growing into their teens and thinking, how is this impacting them?
Okay. Okay. Did it impact them? Luckily, thankfully, no. Mm-hmm. Um, and I, I think since doing my training, I, you know, I'm talking a very different way about food. I. Um, can you, that's interesting. Can you go add a bit more to that? Yeah. So it's really, uh, and it's very difficult I think, as parents to, to navigate because we always wanna say to our kids, you know, we want them to be healthy and eat healthy, but I was just very careful about labeling foods and demonizing foods, labeling good and bad.
Demonizing foods and talking about, you know, what can we add in to feel more energized, to feel better in ourselves, and, you know, uh, on a kind of physical level, I suppose, but not without, without talking about what we shouldn't be eating and trying to, uh, tell 'em to avoid foods and things. So it was more about, okay, let's add some of this into our diet and.
This tastes really great and let's do some cooking, and how can this be really delicious? And so really talking in a very different way about food. Mm. I understand. I think
Jemma: we, we all have, do we all have, do we all have our list of foods that we, I'm not going to say good and bad. Um, foods helpful and unhelpful.
Thank you very much. That was very helpful. Yep. I have foods that. My husband bought some plant sausages yesterday, which normally not my thing. Mm. Chorizo sausages. I have to say they were delicious, but I thought what was in these thinking that they'd be quite healthy. And I mean healthy as in not too many ingredients and not super processed.
Of course they were. Yes. And it really bugged me because the third or fourth ingredient was palm oil. Mm. It was sustainable palm oil, and I think that's all just to cover up anyway. Yeah. And I can't stand, I don't really, I eat a lot of, um. I don't annoy kind of stuff like that, but I, I can't stand that palm oil is added to everything.
So then I, and I de, I demonize that, this is my point. Mm-hmm. And for me, whether it's an unhelpful ingredient and food, I choose not to eat it for ethical reasons and, um, ecological reasons. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. I dunno why I said that, but yes, helpful and unhelpful foods. I think also if you have been, if you've restricted.
For a long time, you really do have to open your palate up, don't you? Yes. And you have to just go slowly and Yeah. And re and, and then you can kind of, if you open up and go, okay, I can have every, anything, everything that I want. And then you can kind of like close it back down.
Marcelle: Yeah. Yeah. It's usually do sort of a traffic like system, not, not like you have on the, you know, packaged foods from supermarkets.
Mm. But very much. Let's get the list of foods from the person that you know is under their green, that they'll always eat the amber foods that they might only eat a little bit of or be a little bit fearful of. And then the reds, which are the a, their list of absolute no-nos. And then we start working through, gradually introducing one by one, one of the amber foods till they feel kind of safe with that.
And then we move on to another food. So we are building into the diet. Do you do a, a bite at a time if necessary. If, if necessary. You know, it's really about trying to remove that, the sort of judgment around it and very much just seeing how it is and how was it, and, and usually people will say it was actually okay, you know, and that I'll try again.
That, that's, that
Jemma: takes a lot of bravery. Yes. If you've been so restricted and limited in your food choices. Yes. I had someone I was, was mentoring. She wanted to be more spontaneous and flexible in her life. She had quite a rigid eating plan that she'd had from a residential treatment. She gained treatment a couple of times, so she was kind of recovered, I guess what you call quasi recovered.
And she had a very specific breakfast. I said, can you swap your 30 grams of blueberries for, I dunno, 30 grams of raspberries, same, same berries, et cetera. And she couldn't do it. And it was torture for her. Yes. And that's. Being in that place emotionally is just, it's exhausting. I was gonna say, there's a lot of work you can do around just the flexibility. Mm. Um, without it even starting with food, I think.
Jemma: Yeah, exactly.
Marcelle: So that's tends to be what I would do. You know, there's a flexibility exercise where we start maybe getting a list of 10 things that, that they would always do.
Mm. Whether it's putting certain items of clothing on first. Sure.
Jemma: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcelle: Um, something like that. Something silly. 10 things that they would never do and then they get to pick, you know, one or two of each and do the opposite.
Jemma: I did a lot of that. I used to walk different, um, route down the street.
Sometimes I'd walk backwards. Mm. Like it's just a break that, um, just to kind of break that. Belief up. It's not a belief, but that you just need to shake it all up, don't you? Yes. Yes. What was I gonna say? Um, okay. Bringing spontaneity in. Um, okay. How much do you have to negotiate with someone who's very fixed go, leading on from what we've just spoken about?
Hmm. Suppose have you had anyone who, or do you have people who, who just can't get there? They can't. Be flexible. It's too much.
Marcelle: Um, I think, I think everyone, I'm just trying to think of anyone who's not tried. I mean, I've worked with people who've got co-occurring other mental health illnesses, like OCD comes up quite a lot.
Mm. And you know, I'm just thinking of a few individuals and, and, and they've actually done so well in being able to break their rigidity. I. Um, and especially with all of that going on as well, so that they, um, it's just been a very slow, often it's slow, gradual process. Um, but I think by the time people come to me, uh, especially if they've been more of a restricted piece, 'cause I work, I don't work with acute anorexia, but if someone's come to me when they've.
Done some treatment work before, but then they decide I really want to improve my relationship with food. Mm. Then they'll come at that stage. So I think at that stage they've almost, you know, they've decided this is, I. More painful for me than keeping hold of this eating disorder. Yeah, that's the moment, isn't it?
Yeah.
Jemma: Yeah.
Marcelle: And so that's the crux of it. Um, and that, and in terms of people who are struggling with binge eating and bulimia, there's still rigidity around that and still a lot of restriction as well, even though they're seen as overeaters. Um, but yeah, I think it, you know, certainly coming from, um. More restrictive mindset.
It, it, it can be very, very slow. The, the progress,
Jemma: but, so yeah.
Marcelle: If
Jemma: someone is bulimic yes. And binging a lot, did I, are they defined as an overeater rather than a bulimic? Is that what you said? Yes. Yeah. Are
Marcelle: they? Yes. Even though, and, you know, as you, you know, they, there's often restriction going on. As with binge eaters, there's often restrict, you know, that binge restrict cycle.
Jemma: What do you think is going on with the binging? What do you think, metaphorically? Can you do like a, across the board generalization, even though everyone's different? Yeah.
Marcelle: Um, I mean. Uh, it's usually been developed as a coping mechanism.
Jemma: Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: And, you know, we talked mentioned before about that disconnect with your body.
Jemma: Yeah. There's
Marcelle: a lot of disconnection and understanding or being, wanting to feel your emotion. So very often it's that, you know, numbing or pushing down your emotions with food. Mm-hmm. Not, you know, so there's, there's something going on emotionally usually. Um. But often there's years and years of, uh, thoughts and beliefs that have been created from, from childhood onwards, from adolescents about themselves, about their sense of, um, efficacy.
So what they can do, that they can do things, um, very low self-worth often. And, um, over the years they've sort of molded this. Idea of themselves in their minds that they're, they're constantly failing very often. Um, so yeah, it, it tends to be a combination of lots of different things. But what I commonly see is, is people who've really had difficult childhoods or parents who unbeknownst to them, have had, um, a very.
Unfortunate relationship with food and their body, and that's been passed through the generations. Do you think there's, um,
Jemma: are you ever able to look at people's relationship with food when they were in the mother's womb? That whole in vitro.
Marcelle: Phase. Are you interested in that? Yes. Yeah. It's fascinating.
Usually we start from a young age just trying to un unravel all of those, you know, deep seated thoughts about themselves and about food and about their body and about weight and dieting, um, from an early age, but I haven't gone back that far. Yeah.
Jemma: It's, I think it's a, a study that needs to happen. Mm-hmm.
That, that nurture and nourishment. Yes. And then also obviously, yes. And then how you feed when you first come out into this, this world, what that, what that experience is like. Mm. Did you,
Marcelle: were you a bja? No, I, I never been a ger. I, I'm sure I've, you know, emotionally each, from time to time as I think most of us do.
And I think that's a natural isn, natural, natural thing. That's normal. Yeah. Yeah. It's human. Yeah. Yeah. Human. Um. So, no, I think really my issue with food was when I was becoming a little bit, I could have headed towards that sort of orthorexic. Yeah. Way of thinking really. I was, I was definitely on route to that until I, yeah.
As I say, I am embarked on this whole, um. Uh, training and eating, psychology training. That was mind blowing to me. I just found it absolutely incredible and completely was able to do the work on myself, I think.
Jemma: Yeah. So did people come and see you privately?
Marcelle: Yes. Yes they do. Okay. Yeah, I work, um, online over Zoom now.
Jemma: Right.
Marcelle: And, um. Sort of from all, all parts of the world really, and the country.
Jemma: Okay. Okay. Did we, did we pick up everything we needed to about your relationship with food and, and how you were impacted when you did your training? Was there anything else that you'd, you want to bring in?
Marcelle: Um, I think really it's just, I.
You know, from talking to, um, other practitioners, I think it's much more rife, um, amongst professionals, nutrition professionals, maybe dieticians as well than we realize. Um, I. I think yeah, the training has this sort of impact on us.
Jemma: Yeah.
Marcelle: So it's just quite fascinated and since bringing my book out, you know, I've had people say to me who are working in the field, you know, oh, this would be really useful for me because my relationship with food isn't great.
So Right position, heal myself. Yeah. Yeah. So it's quite interesting. Um, and hence I think it's really important that, um, if someone's looking for help, nutrition support. Who's come from a disordered eating history of or has, um, you know, uh, issues around food and challenges around food that they do work with someone who's had eating disorder training because they'll work very differently.
Jemma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: Oh, that lived experience. Mm-hmm.
Jemma: Yes. My last question before we take another quick break. What are the top three emotions. That people are trying to manage or that come up for people after their binge.
Marcelle: Mm. So I'd say anxiety is often mm-hmm. A big one. Mm-hmm. Um, loneliness is lonely. Yeah. Is so common.
And not even necessarily someone who's living on their own, who doesn't have family. It can even be lonely still. For sure. There's a, there's a sense of loneliness. Um, a sense of despair, I think.
Jemma: Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: And what about shame? Oh, shame, yes. Shame completely. Yeah. Um, shame is the thing that is just, I. Commonly runs through, um, across all eating disorders.
Yeah. And it's, yes, it's the first emotion following a binge. Yeah. I see what you're, you're asking me now, sorry. And so, yeah. Um, yeah, just following a binge, that's the, the, the thing that's the shame that keeps 'em stuck in the cycle. Yeah. Feeling like they've failed, feeling like. They're lazy and greedy and all these sort of words that they talk about themselves.
And you know, often it's obviously very secretive for many people it's, it's hidden, it's done in secret. Um, so there's so much shame and guilt and then the rage
Jemma: as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We are gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna talk about your, your wonderful new book.
Welcome back to Love This Food Thing podcast. And now we're gonna talk about Marcelle's book. Where's my bit of paper Gun? Let me just have a look and we're gonna talk about the process of writing. I just said to Marcelle, I never talked to people about their writing process because I write every day and it's the thing that I love to do the most in the world.
The binge freedom method. There it is. So to to actually, and, and I'm was meant to write a book this year, and I find now I'm writing chapters and putting them on substack. It will happen. Mm-hmm. But. How? Yes. Talk to me about just about the kind of back of house stuff around writing your book. Is it your first book?
Yes, it is. Yeah. How long did it take from that first draft to, oh gosh, to where you are now?
Marcelle: Takes me years to lie. A long time, yeah. Yes. Okay. It was like, yeah, it
Jemma: was a very long pregnancy. Okay. Well that's great, isn't it? Because I can obsess for an hour about one sentence. Yes. And I'm trying to teach myself now because I have some deadlines and stuff, and I just go, it's four o'clock.
I mean, it's a terrible time to write, isn't it? But say four o'clock, you're gonna write for an hour and you're gonna finish it. Yes. And then, okay, so when, when's your favorite time to write? I think I was better in the morning. Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: Definitely. Absolutely. Morning person. Immediately. Yes, me too. Yeah. Um, and actually one of my friends who's a copywriter and has edited books and things mm-hmm.
Said to me very early on in the process, don't obsess over it sounding brilliant. Just get it all down there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. First and she, that really helped me actually, because otherwise I would've. I don't think I had Aman ever finished it, so
Jemma: do, yeah, no, I know. Because then you never finish your first draft, which is generally, which is for you, isn't it, so that you can make sense of what you're writing.
Yes. Did it, um, did it come out in the format that you wanted or did that happen later? Did you have a, a kind of notion of the, sort of, the skeleton of it?
Marcelle: Yeah. I knew that I wanted to get my four pillars in place, so I had my four pillars and um, but I did a bit of. You know, the initial pillars that were, you know, I had to change things over, it didn't quite work and mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. It was a bit complicated and I really wanted something that people can find very easy, very easy to read, and that they could work through the steps and feel like they were progressing. So, yeah, I did have to change it from the very initial sort of layout. Okay. And, and go back to it. Yeah. Okay. Um.
Do you, do you write every day? Um, I would say, well, in terms of when I was doing the book or now? No. Now is it something that you still do? I do. Um, I write a blog every week, so Right.
Jemma: Yeah.
Marcelle: Um, not necessarily every day. 'cause obviously just. Balancing with seeing clients and things. Yeah, sure, sure. But, um, but yeah, definitely once a week I like to get a blog out, um, and an email out to people.
Um, okay. And yeah. So just carry on that way really. Okay. Well,
Jemma: I'm imagining these four pillars, and they are big Grecian type pillars with, with, uh. That beautiful kind of, those grooves on them. And there's, they're in the sunshine and Yes. Grecian or there, Roman. Those are my pillars. Maybe I just, that's a cliche, but, so talk to us.
Um, obviously you'd have a, you'll have a different image, but talk to, talk to us about the pillars. Yes. What do, what do the pillars look like to you? Um,
Marcelle: yeah, I think, um, tall and strong. Nice. Nice. Yeah. Okay. And what are they? So they are nourish, balance, think and feel. Okay.
Jemma: Yes.
Marcelle: In that order. Yes, in that order.
And I mean, they're all interchangeable. So the way that it's written, you can sort of dip and dippel, but I would say the way that I work, it tends. This weight tends to be the most helpful to people. So I really start with Nourish. Obviously my background's a nutritionist. Um, I start with Nourish, but it's very, very small steps.
Mm-hmm. So you are building, um, something that can really help people to feel like something's made a difference. So if they are struggling with binge eating, um, the cravings are a big thing. Um. So some of the very small steps in that you put into place first can make a difference to reducing the physical, um, reasons for cravings.
And obviously there are other reasons why there'll be cravings there. Mm-hmm. But that, that can almost be a, kind of feel, like an early win and feel like keep you motivated. Um, what, what are those? Steps, things that you can do. So, so, so I mean, one of the, the, the first things that I recommend is. Putting in regular meals now that Right.
Okay. Okay. Yeah, so it's literally that concern to some people it might sound very simple, but for some people that is a big deal because there's been a lot of fasting and restricting and skipping meals. Mm-hmm. Or chaotic eating, right? Yeah. Where there's no source upset meal times and things. So just putting in regular meals, maybe one at a time.
I mean, I start very slowly in the book so that people feel confident so that they can. Start with, you know, start putting one meal at a time without worrying about what you're putting into your meal necessarily. Just, just start giving your body the chance to know that it's going to be receiving the food regularly.
Okay.
Jemma: Okay. So it's, even though you dip in and out, it's like a plan that you can work through. Yes. Right. Yeah. Okay, so we've got, nourish was the next one.
Marcelle: Balance and it's balance. Yes. Balance is, is really about understanding some of the different reasons why you might have been struggling with binge eating.
So you know, so much emphasis on around eating and cravings and feeling outta control around food is around just. People feeling like they've got no willpower. Mm-hmm. And I really wanted to give people the information, but also help with the steps as well, so that they're working through an understanding what is it that's going on in their body that might be making things a lot harder for them.
Right. Things like, uh, sleep and your circadian rhythm. And how that can impact your hunger and cravings the next day. Yeah. Your hormones, um, your brain, chemicals known as neurotransmitters and, um, stress and all of those things. Um, so I wanted to make something that, you know, just create this, pull together, this pillar that people could actually.
Make sense of what's going on in their body and really feel empowered to understand it, um, and be able to do something about it in many ways as well. I like that I've got this image
Jemma: of someone leaning on that pillar. Mm-hmm. And as, as they're these, these are these, this lovely way that you're saying these little wins and just these little incremental moments, and you could just fold your arms and lean on that second pillar and go, oh, I've done that.
I'm eating more regularly, and. I know what's going on. So the next one is Think
Marcelle: Yes. And Think, think is very much about obviously your beliefs, your thoughts, and your thought patterns. Okay. Okay. Your mindset.
Jemma: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Marcelle: And working on that and bringing to the fore your awareness around how you are speaking to yourself and about yourself.
Jemma: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcelle: Um, and your thoughts around food and weight and dieting, all of those things. Um, so are you,
Jemma: go on.
Marcelle: I was gonna say there's also an element of, of habit change as well as, um, in the behavior change.
Jemma: Yes. Which I mentioned in your introduction, because that's quite something, isn't it? To change your behavior?
Yes. Or is it? We could just do it instantly, but we, I seem to find it very difficult. But then there's, there's a limiting belief for you, isn't there? Yeah. So maybe I have a belief that it's easy for me to change, which I actually do now, so it's not quite so difficult. Yes. But, um, yes, changing limiting beliefs and, um, and, but you have to have the corresponding feeling, don't you?
And then you have to kind of fake it. Yes. Until you, until you make it. And it all starts, all these. Different factors start to gel. Yes, exactly. And you start to, yeah, you start
Marcelle: to believe something other or different. Yeah. Because they're all, they are, all these factors are interconnected, but Yeah. You know, you've gotta put one foot in front of the other, haven't you?
Yes. You have move forward. Okay. And then feel Yes. So yes. So feel is really bringing the emotion side of it and understanding. How that impact your thoughts are impacting your emotions and also around emotional regulation. But there's some other things in there that I think people also don't think about very much with is about their relationships with others and how that can impact their eating behavior.
Yeah. Um, you know, some people are around food pushers maybe, or, um, for some people there may be, uh, have a, a saboteur in their life. Yeah. That's making it harder for them. Maybe not intentionally, um, for whatever, whatever reason. So it's starting to just think about that and understand what's going on around them and also around boundaries and the way people are talking about food around them, and.
Dieting, body image, et cetera. Um, and how to navigate that.
Jemma: I think it's interesting as well, uh, particularly if you are the person that creates or, or cooks the food or makes the food for, for others. Mm-hmm. I know that I can get really resentful about that. I'm just like, oh, I'm just done with this. Mm.
Yeah. And then I'll be, I'll love to cook something, but I'm not like a. A chef, I need about a day to do something. Yeah. Relatively decent. The thought of being hurried is just like, I can't do that. But I was just thinking about, well, I was actually thinking about my mom. My mom, and I've never heard the phrase food pusher.
My mom doesn't eat very much and she's definitely a food pusher. She was always like, who's gonna have the last bit of cake? Who's gonna have this? Yes. Oh, let's finish this up. Let's, let's clear the plate. Let's do this. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And I had two brothers, so they'd hoover up everything. Oh, okay. Yeah. And, uh, yes, the men at well, um, yeah.
Um, okay, so you've got your four pillars, which sounds fascinating. I can imagine people wandering around with the book in their pocket. Just feeling safer and more secure and dipping into chapter nine and going, oh yeah, that's the bit that I wanted to read. Um, is it kind of like a conclusion of the book?
Is it just the four pillars, or do you weave in and out of your own story and client cases or?
Marcelle: Yes, ca there's, um, there's case studies throughout the book which sort of brings it to life. I think it's, it's helpful for people to know, um, you know, what. People have been able to do. Yes. So it's kind of little vignettes of, of stories.
Um, and yeah, I think at the end there is something that kind of helps pull it all together. But I also have, as part of the book, I really wanted to offer a, a free downloadable sort of workbook, but people can also buy a ready. You know, are ready to perceive one. Okay. Okay. Um, and that helps. So even though you can work through and, you know, write in the book, the workbook can really help because it's got extra prompts in there to just reflect and there's a lot of reflective work as you do the different tasks and things throughout the book.
Um, so yeah, I wanted to, to make it really. Um, accessible and, and something that someone does rather than just reads. 'cause there's obviously information in there that's really useful and empowering. But I wanted people to be able to just to, to do the work and that will really create the change.
Absolutely. Have you done an audiobook or is that coming? Um, I'm still thinking about that
Jemma: actually. Might do an audiobook. I was just wondering how people can get your book where they can buy it from. Yes. Your website.
Marcelle: Where, where will they find it? It's on, it's pretty much on all major online platforms.
Jemma: Yeah.
Marcelle: Um, I know there's a Kindle version as well. Okay. Um, but, um, which is where the. Actually, if you've got a Kindle version, the um, workbook's obviously really useful. Yeah. But, um, yeah, so literally from Amazon to Waterstones online. Um, lovely. Well done you worldwide sort of thing.
Jemma: Well done you.
Congratulations. Really wonderful. Thank you. Oh, really big stuff. Before we do a final question, is there anything that you would like to say any. Uh, like message or anything that you, you would like to wrap this podcast up with?
Marcelle: I think I'd just like to say that I know for so many people that I speak to mm-hmm.
When I first talk to them, they feel like they've almost given up hope because they feel like they've tried everything. Um, and I just want people to know that there is absolutely, um. The opportunity to overcome an eating disorder to Yeah. Um, and reclaim your life. Um, I second there.
Jemma: Yeah.
Marcelle: And don't ever give up.
Jemma: Yeah, absolutely. Keep going. Yeah. Okay. Final question. The hardest question of all. If you are, do you know what's coming if you are on an island, any kind of island climate? What five favorite foods would you take with you? You do have stool, cupboards, olive oil, seasoning, herbs, bits and pieces. Okay. What would you take with you?
Marcelle: Oh my goodness. You see, everyone goes, oh my God. I think it would have to some chocolate. What kind of chocolate? Oh, chocolate mint. Dark mint chocolate. Oh, what? With mint cream. No, just like, not the mint. Yeah. Yeah, just the mint.
Jemma: Yeah. Yeah.
Marcelle: Love that. Mm-hmm. Me too. Um, I would love, um, some garlic. Okay. Um, I would also love, um, I would love avocado.
Okay. It's, you know, not so great for the planet. No. The drought. Yeah. Um. You can on your island
Jemma: though, A sourdough. Yes. Okay, love that. Okay, lovely. Um, there's a new bakery. I'm gonna try and get 'em on the podcast, actually. I'm gonna mention their name and I can tell them called Dusty Knuckle. And they make this.
Sourdough. I think they put some potato in it. Oh man. It's delicious. And you can cut it in really thin slices and then toast it really thinly and smother it with peanut butter. Oh, what's your, I was gonna say peanut butter. Oh, are you? So you have to name your peanut butter. Crunchy or smooth. Salted or unsalted?
Marcelle: Crunchy, unsalted.
Jemma: Oh. I have crunchy salted, so I won't be coming to your island. Peanut Marcelle, but it
Marcelle: But on the sourdough. Oh, heavenly. It's so good.
Jemma: So good. Marcelle, thank you so much for being the first guest of 2025 and for coming on and just being such a brilliant person.
Marcelle: Oh, thank you.
Jemma: Thank you. If you'd like to learn more about the mission we're on today and who we help, simply head to love this food thing.com to see all the details.